I love these guys.
Once the rich are broke, who pays the government bills then!?!? Where will the money come from?
Do you know WHY Joe deserves to spend every cent he made on gum balls and cocaine? Because it's HIS MONEY.
So who should pay taxes? Everyone but the same amount? High income people only? Low income people only? Nobody? Once again I never said high income people were bad or evil or that we should take all their money away. I said they could afford higher taxes and that cutting their taxes doesn't grow the economy.
Yes there are a of crappy programs and the government spends money on stuff it shouldn't. The war in Iraq is a good example.
However to make the budget balance we either need huge spending cuts on every thing including things most people like. Or smaller cuts and slightly higher taxes.
There are a few issues that really need to be addressed if we expect the government to work for the all voters and not for a few of them.
Get rid of citizens united. Being able to know who and what is spending money on our elections is important.
Congress needs restrictions on insider trading. As it is now any member of congress can use non public information to invest. Giving them an incentive to try and manipulate the market for their own personal gains. They should be focusing on what is best for the country not what is best for their personal investment portfolio.
And please, PLEASE tell me you didn’t type, “Yes the constitution is changeable. It was designed that way because times change.” Please tell me you were yankin’ my chain there.I will admit, the Constitution is changeable…it can be amended but that’s it. There is no other way to interpret it other than how it is written. Our Founding Fathers were some amazingly wise men who created the Bill of Rights, a document that is about as straight forward in its meaning than anything ever written by man. I wish those guys had a hand in the Bible because it would have made life for Christians a heck of a lot easier. The Bill of Rights is brilliant in its simplicity.
Carolyn,I never said I should be the one to decide who pays what for taxes. We live in a democracy so we vote on it. I was responding to someone who seemed to think all taxes are bad and that everyone should get to keep their money. If everyone keeps all the money they earn nobody pays taxes we have no government.
As far as gay marriage you are right. Who cares? Gay marriage has no impact on the current problems of our country. Lets just let them get married live their gay lives and move on to more important things.
Carolyn,I never said I should be the one to decide who pays what for taxes. We live in a democracy so we vote on it.
Carolyn,So the question of gay marriage comes down to who has the right to define what marriage is? Do we use the bible, the Korran, the book of Mormon? Or do we vote on it.
Yes being gay isn't common and same sex couples can't naturally have kids. There are some same sex couples who can't have children either yet they can get married.
And Kat, what gets missed is that the people on the lower end, the lower mid class down to working poor, gets screwed along with the "rich" every single time. Why?Because they're the ones who get fired. They are the ones who lose everything, because they can't afford the property taxes. They are the ones that can "afford" health care, but only if they drop every single luxery they've managed to get and skin the rest down to bare bones.
Quoting Me:And Kat, what gets missed is that the people on the lower end, the lower mid class down to working poor, gets screwed along with the "rich" every single time. Why?Because they're the ones who get fired. They are the ones who lose everything, because they can't afford the property taxes. They are the ones that can "afford" health care, but only if they drop every single luxery they've managed to get and skin the rest down to bare bones.Not to mention that historically we have no reason to believe that the tax increase will be limited to the so-called "wealthy"...I believe it is a fantasy that we can tax the wealthy enough to make a dent in the debt. The numbers are just too huge.
I personally think anyone should be able to get a civil union that is equivalent to a marriage.
Carolyn,Just to get this straight you are for civil unions for gays and lesbians?I personally think anyone should be able to get a civil union that is equivalent to a marriage.
AT (and everyone else)I have never said I am for taking one person's wealth and giving it to someone else.
AT (and everyone else)I have never said I am for taking one person's wealth and giving it to someone else.Taxes are a redistribution of wealth. They take money from the people and give it to the country or state. The country or state spends it in a way which hopefully benefits everyone who paid taxes.
I think we need to reduce military spending. The cold war is over. We spend way more on national defense than any other country. We don't need a large army we need a well trained and efficient army. We need to reform the welfare system.
I don't think a tax increase on people making over $200,000 a year would really hurt their life style all that much or hurt their ability to make money in the future. If you want rich people to use their money to invest in growing companies in the USA raise their taxes and make USA business investments tax deducible.. That would encourage rich people to actually use their money for something good rather than just buying a vacation home in the caribbean.
All that has to be asked is one question.Once the rich are broke, who pays the government bills then!?!? Where will the money come from?I have asked this question of several liberal friends and the responses are absolutely comical as well as mind boggling!
Raising or lowering taxes on high income people has little effect on the economy. Yes, and so we would raise them again why? To make people with less income "feel better?" If you want to talk about things that will promote growth lets talk about changing government regulations. Yes…… let's talk about reducing some of them………. Cutting spending is important also. Yes, Yes!!Yes welfare needs a reform.
Cutting taxes on high income people so they can grow the economy is silly. It doesn't work.
The_KatI have voted democratic the past few elections but I am more of an independent. I considered voting for Gary Johnson this year. My thoughts on Romney were "Is this seriously the best the republican party can do?"
Quoting erichmatt:Cutting taxes on high income people so they can grow the economy is silly. It doesn't work.Yeah because it sure as hell didnt work when Reagan and Kennedy did it ... oh wait, my bad.
Quoting erichmatt:The_KatI have voted democratic the past few elections but I am more of an independent. I considered voting for Gary Johnson this year. My thoughts on Romney were "Is this seriously the best the republican party can do?"Um, erichmatt, you do know that Gary Johnson would slap you silly for your insistence on raising taxes, don't you?
Maybe by the time I get back from work, we will have a convert here.............
:you have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness;
Erichmatt, let me guess you are fiscally conservative but socially liberal? I’m going to throw something out there…when have entitlement programs ever worked?
Medicare and Medicaid and social security are a mess but leaving seniors who have given a lot to this country seems harsh.
I do know social security is running out of money and people keep talking about reforming medicare and medicaid and complaining about the cost.Maybe I will do some research on it.
Let's take all these children born into the welfare system - womb to the tomb so to speak - and let's "reallocate" them to families that can afford them... Who's with me? Erichmatt?
Would a national sales tax discourage people from buying things?
Don't you think you should be allowed to decide what is in your best interest? And why do you think some guy in Washington sitting on an advisory panel cares more about you or your children than some insurance company employee. AT least the insurance company knows that if you are unhappy they could lose your business. The government worker can screw you completely and you have absolutely no recourse.
Quoting weary:Let's take all these children born into the welfare system - womb to the tomb so to speak - and let's "reallocate" them to families that can afford them... Who's with me? Erichmatt?Never did hear an answer to that question.
They also increased government spending. How do you know it was the tax cuts the grew the economy not the spending?I am not saying it was or wasn't the spending I am asking how do you know which it was?
We have covered the concept of government spending to get us out of the great recession. And we were told by the Great One that a stimulus bill was, by definition, a spending bill. He said that government spending was stimulus. If all government spending is stimulus, why is military spending not stimulus? Defense spending provides literally millions of jobs in the United States. All the things required by the military are made by people. All of the companies that provide those goods and services hire people.
I trust for profit companies to do whatever they can to make a profit. So I don't think they always have the general populations best interest in mind.
I trust for profit companies to do whatever they can to make a profit.
And neither does the government. There is plenty of corruption in the government and abuse of tax payers money. I have witnessed it first hand.
Has any one else here besides me bought health insurance on the open market instead of getting it through a job? If so how did it work out for you? For me it was a pain in the neck and I don't think I ended up with a good insurance company. Thankfully I never had to put it to the test but I didn't really trust it..
Right now health insurance pays for routine care as well as disaster care.
First of all, unless you have one FANTASTIC health insurance plan, it probably doesn't "pay for" either routine or what you have termed disaster care.
Oh and try and figure out what your insurance will or won't pay for by reading the paperwork. Good luck with that..
The_KatI forgot to ask what are your thoughts for getting rid of corruption in government
I don't think the pizza and hardware store industry are very heavily regulated by the government.
Are you saying companies haven't sold products that have killed people?
Removing all regulations would be saying. Heck with the people who live in this country lets make sure companies make lots of money. Sure it would grow the economy but at what cost?
Everything has a upside and a downside.
The_KatI think getting rid of corruption would shrink the government. You think shrinking the government would get rid of corruption. Which do we do first?Yes I know my original point wasn't that getting rid of corruption would shrink the government but thinking about it now I think it would.
Corporations do this because money spent on health care is tax delectable.
Right now health insurance pays for routine care as well as disaster care. If home owners insurance and car insurance paid for routine maintenance they would be different type of system.
You caught me I suck at spelling and rely to much on spell check. Maybe I have become dependent on spell check. Lets ditch spell check because it makes us bad spellers. On the other hand Spell check has helped me with my spelling because it constantly points out words I routinely spell wrong. That give me the opportunity to learn..More stuff for us to disagree on
RocketRyder,I am not talking about toilet paper and improper use of hair dryers.en.wikipedia.org/.../...That is something we would need protection from. Marketed as a medicine and kills people.Yes I know buyer beware. People should know better.How hard to you think it would be for a corporation to launch an new medicine if there was a good chance it could kill you or your kids. People would just stick to what they knew was safe.
I wouldn't say I trust the government but in most case I trust it more than a company that is only watched by the market.
The_KatI didn't realize that the law blocking insider trading for congress had gone though. Good to hear.The McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform seems like a good idea. What makes it a debacle? The supreme court gutting it with their Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission decision?I know we had a corrupt county sheriff a few years ago.. She stole stuff and embezzled money and got busted.
erichmatt-I never said that we should remove all the regulation in healthcare or insurance, but much of it needs to be repealed. And, having worked for years in a healthcare field I can assure you that there are better forms or oversight than government.
And, my point about the insurance market is that we should get rid of the insurance system that we have in the United States. It is the problem in healthcare costs, not the solution. It needs to be totally revamped. For a more detailed analysis of the problem see Mock's post on healthcare that she posted this morning.
Quoting erichmatt:Right now health insurance pays for routine care as well as disaster care. If home owners insurance and car insurance paid for routine maintenance they would be different type of system.You're missing the point. Health insurance SHOULDN'T pay for routine health care. It should be strictly for emergencies. It SHOULD operate exactly as car insurance. If you take the time and money and put into BOTH proper maintenance, you rarely have to use the catastrophic care.
The only way to get rid of excess baggage and lessen the chance of corruption at the federal level is to rid the federal government of every Democrat.
erichmatt: Once again, you have inadvertently provided the counter argument to your point. You said"Car insurance doesn't cover routine care but we are also required to get our cars inspected every year."Here in OK, an inspection sticker was five dollars. It was kept to that price, by the state government, so as not to be an undue burden on the poor. However, as costs went up for the mechanics that performed these inspections, fewer and fewer were willing to go into the hole to provide this service. The state governments response? TO STOP REQUIRING INSPECTIONS. They could not force providers to provide it at a loss, so they stopped requiring it period. Expect this same chain of events at a Doctor's office near you.
Does that leave us with just one major political party? Sounds like a bad idea to me no matter which party it is.
>> The point was made in the video that higher taxes on the rich would hurt them so badly they wouldn't be able to be rich and invest in the economy any more. Yea. It is. Did you listen to it? People are going to buy what they want first, and THEN invest. This is just as true for the rich as it is for the middle class as it is for the poor. I like donating to the Boy Scouts and the Salvation Army. By that I mean, I like putting a few bucks in their bucket when I walk out of the grocery store. But you know what? I buy my groceries first. If I don't have any spare change afterwards? Well, then they go without. THAT'S the point they're making. The rich - like anybody else - are going to take care of their needs/desires before they take care of others. And why shouldn't they? >>So you are saying we would be better off with no taxes, no government and no military, no national highway system, no national education system?Did I say that? No. I didn't. So, stop trying to set up a straw man to fight because your idiot liberal collectivist ideology can't handle the ACTUAL argument.>>I doubt you really want no government and I don't want complete government control.Are you a liberal? Democrat? Did you vote for Obama? If so, then you're a liar. The latter is EXACTLY what you want, and EXACTLY for what you voted.>>We live in a collective society. No, we don't. This is so supremely ignorant that I can only conclude it's wishful thinking. We do NOT live in a collectivist society. Our Constitution and the American Ideology were defined to be the EXACT OPPOSITE of that.>>Try living without the help of any one else. Try making something without using tools or materials made by someone else.That's not "help." That's the result of CONTRACT. Mutual benefit EXCHANGE. Not altruism. >>The market place provides goods and services and the government provides a framework for it to be built on."YOU DIDN'T BUILD THAT!!!!! YOU DIDN'T BUILD THAT!!!!!!!!!"Right? Right, you flunkie? >>I am trying to keep thing general because not everyone would agree what a good investment is.So then what IS a good investment? I mean, you know best, obviously. It's clearly not beach houses and BMWs, right? So what is it? Pipe up, collectivist. Tell us, liberal. Tell me and everyone else how we should spend our money, you arrogant, self-righteous SOB.
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