You know that whole choice-in-healthcare thing Mock just wrote about? That CHOICE that Obama says we’re going to have in the new healthcare bill, when in reality, the whole notion of choice is just a crock of monkey crap and his empty promises are basically a bunch of smoke and mirrors for us actually NOT having a choice?
Yeeaaahh. Well, enter more smoke and mirrors wrapped up with a bow of complete incompetence.
In this audio, Obama is asked by a blogger from Maine about Section 102 of the healthcare legislation. The particular section outlaws private insurance. OUTLAWS. So, he asked what many of us would. “Is this true? Will people be able to keep their insurance and will insurers be able to write new policies even though H.R. 3200 is passed?”
To which our fearless leader responded, “You know, I have to say that I am not familiar with the provision you are talking about.”
Wow. Solid, Mr. President. Really.
So, there are two theories that can stem from this, and I’ll let you decide which one is correct, clever and competent readers. One, The Messiah he is clueless about his own healthcare bill that he wants to pass within the next month. Or, two, he just doesn’t want to say the obvious out loud (cue the entry Mock wrote before this).
I don’t know, though. Based on past history, either theory could probably hold some water.
Holy insanity.
Ignorant or liar?
Empty Suit moment #12.
MD: Are you really keeping count? LOL!
I have as yet to see or hear anyone talk about the long term impact this will have on the economy.
What happens when capital at all levels get removed from the economy because people are stashing cash in case of health emergency (which they should have been doing all along) because government health care sucks? People will pay cash to get better care, make no mistake about it!
The economy slows down. Less capital=less jobs.
Not really, but sort of.
If you catch me being off by one or two, let me know. I think this is #12???
I don’t know about all of you, but I feel so secure knowing that my family’s life is in the hands of this oh-so-competent moron!
I’m not Anonymous!!!
It is tough to be familiar with a provision that doesn’t exist:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c111:1:./temp/~c111IXsftM:e22987:
102 creates a five year grace period for private health plans to comply w/ certain provisions of the bill. Now, I find this type of stuff hard to slog through– no question that it is tough to find out what any given bill is actually saying. But to claim that it is making private health plans illegal is a complete and total lie. You can’t tell me that the people circulating this (Michelle Bachmann comes to mind) don’t know that. A similar statement by Bachmann was ripped apart almost a week ago and yet this rumor persists– apparently people like Bachmann can count on the fact their base will just laugh at this kind of stuff (speaking of, now THIS is a gotcha question) rather than actually check it out. “Holy insanity” indeed.
We Win! They Lose! Please the see video in the post below this one. If you STILL persist that the government isn’t trying to eliminate private insurance, then you need to put down the crack pipe.
We Win! They Lose!: Your problem is you can’t see the bend in the road. The government plan for one, has a provision that if you change employers, you lose insurance, you get government insurance. This is due to the fact that no new policies will be allowed to be written. Next up, it will be cheaper all the way around, for employers of all stripes, just to take the government plan. I think you are absolutely clueless about how many people a company has to keep on the payroll just for insurance, let alone hiring outside consultants to investigate and negotiate different plans. There is an enormous amount of hassle and cost for companies to purchase and provide coverage. They will off load it in the name of cost and expediency.
We Win they Lose!: Just for you, and remember denial is not a river in Egypt.
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=333066661999894
Maybe I “need to put down the crack pipe”, I am “absolutely clueless”, and I am in “denial”, but I know a lie when I see one. 102 says nothing whatsoever about making private health plans illegal and to claim that it does is a lie. Maybe you believe that there is some long term nefarious plan to eliminate private health care, but that does not justify completely misrepresenting the actual words on the face of hte bill. Particularly in the case of Michelle Bachmann, etc, who theoretically owes a duty to her constituents but but clearly knows she can get away with this kind of misrepresentation among her base.
I read about 102 a little more and it is imposing only the most basic standards on private plans, not to mention giving them 5 years to comply. Despite what that editorial says, the bill contains NO prohibition on selling private plans after 2013. Plans will be required to provide benefits actuarially equivalent to 70% of the full actuarial value.
Apparently the typical employer provided HMO currently provides 93% of actuarial value, and a PPO provides 80 some %– well above the standards set by 102.
I read this somewhere and thought it was kinda funny:
So I suppose it may be somewhat misleading to say, “If you like your coverage you can keep it.” It would be more fair to say, “If you like your coverage, and it isn’t so insufficient and abusive that even most private insurers would have qualms screwing you over that badly, you can keep it.”
We Win They Lose – OPEN YOUR EYES. Look at the video I posted yesterday that shows Obama telling you in his own words what he wants to see happen to private insurance. You claim to “know a lie when you see one” but yet you’re completely ignoring the fact that he’s going around saying we can keep the coverage we like, when he fully intends for the public option to put private industry in the grave. THAT is an example of a lie.
I assume you are a Christian writing this, and you often talk about the freedoms this country was founded on, and also state that the US was founded on “Judeo-Christian” principles, well, I think it’s interesting how Republicans never ever say we need a Judeo-Christian policy toward the poor or toward people who lack health care- funny that!
ps-yes, I wrote this same comment in another post on this site referring to your amusing rage over Obama’s healthcare plans, but it applies here too.
What would a Judeo-Christian policy toward the poor or people who lack health care BE, exactly? Is it just to make rich people pay for all of them?
Help me out with that one.
Hey – you know what? While we’re being all Robin Hood about healthcare, why stop there? Rich people should pay for housing for the poor too. And the government should get to decide what “reasonable” housing is, and if that means rich people have to dig deeper into their pockets, well, so be it. And rich people should pay for college educations for the poor as well. In fact, rich people should be punished. I mean, it’s not FAIR that they get everything.
Where does this madness END for crying out loud?
Hypocritical – that’s neat that you can cut and paste. Really.
As an “assumed” Christian, I should be able to tithe where I choose and how I choose. Last I heard, isn’t it liberals like you (and I’m assuming YOU’RE a liberal now) who support the separation of church and state? So why is it that you feel that the government should mandate how I choose to be charitable in a Christian way?
Explain. I’m obviously confused by your blatant hypocrisy and contradictory argument here…
We Win They Lose: Like I said…”Denial is not a river in Egypt!” Apparently you don’t know how health care, health insurance, and the medical system in general work. While you can quote but one page of the bill, you can’t seem to glean anything else from the bill, let alone see the hand writing on the wall. You may understand one page of the bill, but cannot seem to figure out how to juxtapose the bill to reality.
Now before you continually attack us for not blindly following Obama, or agreeing with you, perhaps you should attack your own side of the aisle and listen to what more than a few Democrats have said about this bill. Perhaps you should listen to the enormous outcry in this country over this bill. And perhaps, you should be careful what you wish for.
Oh for pete’s sake! Is Hypocritical goober going to spam every column with her nonsense?
Hypocritical, I wonder since we have religious freedom in this country, I wonder do atheists and agnostics have to be forced to pay for this trash as well? Since you feel the government need to ram religion down everyone’s throat and make it a wedge issue. Then answer for us what ‘fruits of one’s labor’ means. Also give us the definition of charity while you are at it. Show me where Christ said government should forcibly take in the name of ‘charity’ or the ‘poor’.
It is apparent you don’t know what happens when you run out of other people’s money either.
I know you won’t answer the above. You are here for the sole purpose of bombarding this site with pure stupidity.
Mock- Don’t worry, “MY EYES ARE OPEN”…how else would I locate my “crack pipe”? My point is: these assertions that the bill will make private health insurance ILLEGAL are a complete lie. You know it, Michelle Bachmann knows it, everyone who can read it knows it. You disagree with the bill and think that it will result in a lack of private insurance options — fine. But that doesn’t make the inane assertions that the bill makes private health plans illegal TRUE. It is incredibly deceptive.
Laurel- I have never seen someone spend so much time telling others how they are stupid, “pseudo intellectual” (really, what do you even mean by that?), or hateful, and yet say so little herself. You wasted an entire paragraph saying:
“Apparently you don’t know how health care, health insurance, and the medical system in general work. While you can quote but one page of the bill, you can’t seem to glean anything else from the bill, let alone see the hand writing on the wall. You may understand one page of the bill, but cannot seem to figure out how to juxtapose the bill to reality.”
…but then don’t even bother to tell me what it is I am missing. Telling people they are naive, stupid, “pseudo-intellectual”, or dismissing their sources outright might be easy but it contributes nothing to a discussion and it definitely doesn’t make you look intelligent by comparison.
Daisy- Why do you attack commentors for being from Canada or having used a different username? For one thing, no one is impressed with an ip tracker, but more importantly, it is so small and petty. Really, I’ve said it before, but shouldn’t you be happy people are interested in your site, regardless of whether you agree with them? Doesn’t seem like a smart strategy to drive visitors away AND make yourself look childish in the process, unless you are trying to create an echo chamber, that is.
We Win, They Lose: you tell ‘em!! I’ve noticed the comments section tends to go like this: Laurel is like Mockarena and Daisy’s fangirl/attack dog- blowing smoke up their asses while also attempting to bully and ridicule anyone whose opinion differs from her narrow minded view of politics.
Meanwhile, Mockarena and Daisy, I guess not used to any comments other than the usual four or five people who comment on their posts-always cheering them on of course-go on the attack right away, and find the stupidest thing to try to “get” someone on. Oooh, I’m from Canada…thanks, I wasn’t aware of that…exactly what the hell is your point? Yes, our healthcare, despite the horror stories journalists of such high repute like Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity might tell you, is the best. I’ve lived here all my life, am middle class, and have NEVER personally encountered anyone who isn’t grateful for our free healthcare. Free and EFFECTIVE healthcare, as I’ve personally experienced myself on more than one occasion in the past.
I just love how you people love to state that America is a “Judeo-Christian” nation and you hold such Judeo-Christian principles, yet, when Obama wants to end the war against an innocent country and end torture against possible innocents, your Christian instincts are to decry these moves, and happily lend your taxes to these causes, but when he wants to provide crucial medicine and healthcare to those who otherwise would go without, and therefore die, you get all up in arms about “government going into your pocket, blah blah blah”…
I’ll just end this comment with this thought- the taxes going towards this illegal war, which is killing and maiming in the million range are probably way more than any taxes going to healthcare for all Americans, which would heal and cure millions of people…take note, you “compassionate conservatives”!
Just for the record, I have immense respect and appreciation for the teachings of Jesus, but I like to think liberals have a far better grasp of his message of love and inclusiveness than republicans!
We Win they Lose!
Why should I bother telling you anything? Did I touch a sore tooth? Apparently my pseudo intellectual comment hit home, you must know it to be true! Good!
Dearie if you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
BTW…what in the heck are you talking about in regards to Bachmann?
Hypocritical: “Laurel is like Mockarena and Daisy’s fangirl/attack dog- blowing smoke up their asses while also attempting to bully and ridicule anyone whose opinion differs from her narrow minded view of politics.”
Look in the mirror dumb a**! Plenty of your fellow countrymen have also pointed out the flaws in your system, and yet you want us to adopt your system? HAHAHAHAHA!!!
As to your Christianity, you best learn what Jesus said about ‘judgment’ and ‘false pride’.
As to narrow minded, you point the finger and have three pointing back.
We Win They Lose!
BTW…you have as yet to refute anything I have said, as well as others. Screaming the same thing over and over at the top of your lungs isn’t refuting.
I have told you over and over what you are missing, and I have pointed it out on other postings.
You either get it or you don’t. Apparently you don’t.
Bottom line is this is still a Republic, and people don’t want this bill or any bill rammed down their throats without their questions and concerns being addressed. If I want communism I will move to China.
Its funny to me how Daisy always points out that liberals always resort name calling, yet Laurel, their loved and devoted follower, is the WORST I have seen on here. And you LOVE the stuff she says, you praise her, you laugh at her comments. Yet she calls people a goober, dumba**, and countless other names on other posts. Any time a liberal spews a name, you yell “typical liberal argument”. How convenient. If you really don’t like name-calling as an argument tactic, maybe you should apply that to both sides? Oh, and don’t try to say that the liberals on here ONLY name call, because that is not true, they have had legit arguments, they just get attacked by people like Laurel and don’t feel the need to stay here anymore.
Sarah -
One, I’ve never praised Laurel for name calling. I’ve praised her for being smart. And writing stuff of substance. Please don’t fabricate. That irks me.
Two, if a liberal wants to take his or her ball and go home because he or she can’t back up their spewings with data or another fruitful argument that rivals – and successfully counters – someone like Laurel’s, I don’t see how that is my problem whatsoever.
You may think that I “praise” Laurel. I don’t praise anyone. I don’t even go to church regularly, fyi. I respect Laurel, because she – unlike some of your peeps out here – doesn’t take her ball and go home. Period.
Hypocritical or We Win They Lose! or anyone else from Canada, for that matter – I was seriously asking you a question. And, of course, you didn’t answer it, but instead went on a rant about how things are “run” around here. Thanks for the recap. But I seriously am interested in why you would care so much about our healthcare system when you don’t even live here or assumably pay taxes here at all.
It wasn’t rhetorical. It was actually a real question. I know that’s hard for you to understand, as that’s what you’re used to hearing from the Almighty – empty rhetoric – but I really wanted to know.
Thanks for deflecting, though. That in itself speaks volumes.
You haven’t attacked them when they left though, you jump on them for namecalling all of the time, not only when they plan to leave. And just because people decide to leave doesn’t mean they can’t stand the heat, trust me. Its because it truly isn’t worth it in their life to argue with you guys. And that doesn’t mean their argument isn’t valid, its means they don’t care enough about what you think to stay here. Maybe you never praised Laurel for her name calling, but you never called her out when you seem to have such a problem with that. But you don’t actually care if it is someone on your side doing it.
What I’d like for the Canadians of the site to answer is this: Why am I seeing so many Canadian patients walk through the door of our office? Every one of these patients laments how long they had to wait for treatment, and that they gave up and moved here to ensure proper treatment. I for one am not impressed by nationalized healthcare, and am not content to stand by and watch my hard-earned money go to the crack-whores of the country to have free healthcare.
I’m also very interested to know Hypocrite’s and We Win They Lose’s answers to the following questions:
1. What exactly does a “Judeo-Christian policy toward the poor or people who lack health care” LOOK like? Is it just a Robin Hood plan?
2. Where does it stop? Are you going to next cry about the necessity for the rich to pay for housing and college, etc?
3. If you believe in the separation of church and state, isn’t the whole “it’s the Christian thing to do” argument sort of moot? And moreover, why does the government get to decide how I choose to be charitable with money I EARN?
I think those are perfectly reasonable questions.
Hypocritical – it’s hilarious to me that you think liberals corner the market on the teachings of Jesus, when it’s liberals who fight the hardest to remove any evidence of Christianity from society. Also – you might wanna do your homework on charitable giving comparisons between Republicans and Democrats.
And yes. You’re totally onto us. Daisy and I have hired Laurel as our attack dog. We keep her caged up and reward her attacks with kibbles and bits. HOW did you ever discover our secret?
We Win They Lose – thank YOU for being so concerned about us potentially turning away visitors. Considering the number of times people keep coming back, changing their names, and masochistically insisting on obsessing over everything we say (which I have to admit is kind of adorable), I think your concern is unwarranted. But TOTALLY appreciated.
Hypocritical, did you want to respond to my comment from the other post at all? Opposition to giant government and Christianity are NOT mutually exclusive. In fact, Jesus was quite anti-government in his day. Seems he might have been more of a Libertarian if you ask me. Although, it feels kinda wrong to try to place Jesus Christ on a political spectrum. I’ll leave that to you since you seem to have a feel for it.
I really love when big government Kool-Aid drinkers come on here all ginned up for a fight and do nothing more than scream, “I know you are, but what am I!?” Very grown up.
Figured I’d copy/paste my other post to transfer my point here since Hypocritical finds the religious angle of our discussion so compelling.
I’m a devout practicing Catholic and I write thousands of dollars in checks to charities each year. Many of those (most Catholic-based) work directly with the poor and do a fine job with getting service directly to the people that need it.
I am NOT ok with government sticking its hand in my pocket, taking my money, wasting a big chunk of it, and throwing the rest to the poor, some of whom may deserve it.
You see, you hypocrite, I want the money to go to the people who NEED it, not a giant bloated government that will waste it the way Canada does!
Mock- You ignored what I was saying– the iptracker stuff is so small and petty, particularly for two grown women. Talk about playground stuff! Please tell me if you disagree. I didn’t say anything to the effect of being concerned for your site, just pointing out that not only is it childish, it’s illogical to your purpose. Unless, again, if your purpose is an echo chamber.
I’m not sure why are you asking me about the whole Judeo-Christian brouhaha, but since you asked, I think you are either misunderstanding/being deliberately obtuse. Hypocrite is pointing out that conservatives love to tout their Christian values yet are very un-Christian in certain policies. Republican politicians are extremely showy and shallow in their faith (introducing stuff like that bill honoring our Judeo-Christian heritage) but don’t seem to walk the walk. i.e. “We’re Christians when it comes to keeping the 10 commandments in the city hall, but when it comes to helping out your fellow man, you’re on your own!” You and Daisy apparently took this to mean that he was calling for some kind of bizarre Robin Hood situation and completely missed his point. I don’t like any mix of religion and politics so I really don’t care how un-Christian or Christian anyone is, but I am also troubled by that hypocrisy– it is so clear that their Christianity is all talk and just pandering to their base. If they weren’t so ridiculous about appearing pious, no one would care. He’s got a point.
“Why should I bother telling you anything?” – Thanks Laurel. You just proved what I was saying, to a T. Again, you don’t want to actually respond. Apparently you have told me “over and over” but I am just too dumb to get it, or to even remember you telling me “over and over”! It is hilarious that your favorite insult is “pseudo intellectual” yet your own intellectualism consists of insulting people and talking about which politicians you’d like to punch. Not sure what you are talking about with the kitchen stuff, “dearie”?
We Win They Lose! “iptracker stuff is so small and petty, particularly for two grown women. Talk about playground stuff!”
Alright, cool. We’ll take the immaturity hit. We totally act like we’re 13 a lot when we’re together, so whatever. I am fine with owning that one, I think.
But, after all the paragraphs of words and more words, you STILL didn’t answer the damn question. Deflect, deflect, deflect. So predictable.
Sarah: I think you need a cookie and a nap. I am not the first to call someone any name, nor will I be the last. Go through the archives dearie, after you have your cookie and a nap.
We Win They Lose: What exactly is it you don’t like? The fact I called you a pseudo intellectual? The fact the word use might be too big for you? The fact that you haven’t refuted anything on this thread about health care or otherwise?
You don’t come here to debate, comment or otherwise. You come here to condescend and pronounce judgment. You think you are doing your bit for civilization by pronouncing all conservatives are stupid and hypocritical, then proceed to condescend and smear because we don’t agree with you.
Then you have the complete and utter gall to have a hissy fit when someone not only disagrees with you, refutes you, but takes the mud balls you throw and throws them back at your pretty white dress. No wonder you like Obama, you are as thinned skinned as he is.
As to my comment, “Why should I bother telling you anything?” I guess I should spell it out for you. Since you are not on a fact finding mission, since you don’t want honest debate, and since you DO want to feed your ego, why should I bother? It is a complete waste of my time to point out fallacious thinking when you refuse to think quite possibly that you might be wrong. The only thing you have done so far is to repeat your talking points at a much higher volume. You know who has refuted you though? The Blue Dogs. Yep, members of your side of the aisle have admitted to the problems of that bill, including loss of private insurance, and they are balking at it. Google it or Lexus Nexus it. Let me throw another problem at ya. Yesterday a measure passed that illegals are not going to be fined if they don’t get government care. Now given that we have heard for years that illegals were driving up the cost of health care, and they are, how is it going to help anything if they are not forced into it with the rest of us? Do you think they are going to come here illegally and tell the Feds, “I’m here, sign me up!” I think they will continue to use the revolving door of the ER, which of course continues that problem and that cost. How is that efficient? Or are you going to suddenly take that opportunity to kick them out?
You, and Hypocritical, come here with the express purpose of poking a stick into a hornet’s nest, then have the nerve to get ticked when you get stung. And to the both of you in regards to religion, it is you that are the hypocrites, since it is liberals that are pro abortion, and it is liberals that are pro gay marriage, and it is liberals that think people are not entitled to the fruits of their labor. Take the plank out of thine own eye before you criticize the splinter in mine. You use religion when it suits your purposes then scream “Separation of Church and State!” when it doesn’t. Religion isn’t a part time job.
We Win They Lose: On other thing, in regards to politicians I would like to punch, that was thread about punching politicians.
Get off your high horse, you know you would like to punch a few politicians, and I would bet money you would like to punch me.
I must be getting under your skin when you have to pull out punching politicians, then flat out lie about it.